Thanks for all the hard work! They believe that over time good manuscripts will push out bad manuscripts. Devine guidance maybe? I challenge you to study this more in depth, and I think you will come to the conclusion that the 5,000 plus manuscripts that we have today from that period equal less than 1% of Bibles used by the church. Received his Th.D. You are arguing from the side opposite of Gods promise to preserve His Word, and Im sure that you will never win. It makes sense, but that doesnt mean its what happened. I admire the zeal textual scholars have in combing through myriads of manuscripts in an effort to better understand Gods word. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Thy word istruefromthe beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgmentsendurethfor ever. This disproportionate copying could be a good thing, as we saw in the section on whether scribes copied better manuscripts. This page was last modified on 17 March 2016, at 05:24. The English text is the modern accepted text of the King James version of the bible which originated in 1611. Well, remember how the Western text type was famous for paraphrasing and the quote for it? Some say Septuagint, and others say the Masoretic Text. According to Textus Receptus Bibles (.com), there are no less than 27 different versions of the Textus Receptus! However, dont trust the English there, look at the shorthand underneath the English words. Most manuscripts read gentle, some read little children and one manuscript reads horses. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. If one wishes to speak about the majority, why restrict the discussion only to extant Greek witnesses and not include the versional witnesses? You probably couldnt find a scholar who would praise the scribal work in Sinaiticus, and its easy to find those who deride it as the worst scribal work among the manuscripts weve found. Im not. (Also known as the Authorized Version, or AV for short.). These findings include but arent limited to Papyrus from the 200s and 300s. One reason could be that something is always lost in translation. Biblical quotations of the earliest church fathers are always (Majority Text advocates will say this is the most likely scenario.). So the Textus Receptus is definitely a Byzantine text, but far from a purely Byzantine text. The NKJV does go with some different readings in the OT but there is so much better original language scholarship today. Welcome to Mood FM Belize 106.3! My Bible study group were puzzled that the NKJV Bible ends Matthew 20 with an extra sentence which doesnt appear in the more recent translations: I believe in the Ecclesiastical Text, meaning that God never promised to preserve a nebulous number of manuscripts floating around in theological circles. Since the rules are so central to their philosophy, well take some time to examine them. Very few if any scholars would argue that the Majority wins all the time. We have to assume that the original was a medium [= vulgate] text The longer texts were gradually shaken out: leads us to assume a medium text or vulgate in existence during the whole time of the hand-transmission of Homer, This consideration revives the view that the Homeric vulgate was in existence before the Alexandrian period [Such]. It goes into just as much depth as this article, and even includes short reviews on the most popular Bible translations at the end.). The copyist of Codex Vaticanus had written in Hebrews 1:3, and a corrector had replaced that with the correct reading, (which is supported by all other manuscripts, including Papyrus 46). Please remember, the original Greek texts were all capital letters, so the translators added the capitals. Other examples include when one manuscript has Jesus Christ, and another has Christ Jesus, with only the order changed. Westcott & Hort thought the Byzantine text family resulted from some scribes combining the other two text types to try and get closer to the original document (much like they were doing). However, the King James Translators used the 1525-1525 Masoretic Text by Daniel Bomberg as the basis for the Old Testament. First, it is not possible and you provide no possible logic to support such. I even purchased an interlinear bible because I wanted to know what was really said. En toute rigueur, l'expression Textus Receptus est apparue dans l'dition du Nouveau Testament, publie en 1633 par Abraham et Bonaventure Elzvir.La prface de cette dition affirmait, en latin : Textum ergo habes, nunc ab omnibus . The existence of these singular readings disproves the myth of the tenacity of errors completely. You found a list provided by a deceiver and copy and pasted. May the Lord continue to grow this character trait in you and continue to bless your studies and teaching skills. I know you cannot hear tone in a text reply, so I can only hope that you believe me when I say that Im not trying to be difficult with you or that Im angry at you. He wrote a long rebuttal of the Majority Text entitled: The Majority Text and the Original Text: Are They Identical? That appears to be the standard go to article for rebutting the Majority text. Thank you for writing this article. The original rules set down by Westcott &Hort arent consulted terribly often anymore. It gets rid of archaic words and phrases, provide quotation marks (they were not in the ASV), and resolves textual issues that have appeared after 1901. Once the research was done, I just needed to type it up, which I do anyway to organize my thoughts. But God, who is rich in mercy, because of his great love that he had for us, made us alive with Christ even though we were dead in trespasses. The authors name is not listed. It seems obvious that the entire thing wasnt going to be burned. When two copies disagree with each other, you have a variant in the text between two documents: this is (unsurprisingly) called a Textual Variant. Thus, manuscripts boasting significant numbers of particular readings cannot be relied upon. The Feminist in Pauls day shaved their heads too. From another article on the topic: However, Hort acknowledged that such a clear-cut genealogical model would be out of place if a transmission-model persistently involved readings which all had some clearly ancient attestation. , , ; , , ; . Ever since then, I have done a lot of study on Bible manuscripts and I have been struggling a lot with the differences between the textus receptus and the critical text. We're happy to have you here, please browse all our site and listen to our stream, feel free to check out our schedule for your favorite shows and programs. Her head or her own head is just that. Berean Patriot, ), It is in fact easier to find two consecutive verses in which these two MSS differ the one from the other, than two consecutive verses in which they entirely agree.. Again, Westcott and Hort were mistaken as nearly all major textual variants had appeared before the year 200. because the next line also Lets look at Isaiah 40:8 first. Ill probably have to look at the following topics in more depth (1793-1851), who had first moved away from relying on the Textus Receptus, Tischendorf.Downloads - Bible SupportMajority Text vs.Critical Text vs. God bless! Thankyou so much for all your research and sharing your knowledge. Which single document/manuscript is perfectly preserved? See their intro to the NT here: http://www.katapi.org.uk/NEB/NT-Introduction-1970.pdf. It would likely end up looking like an Alexandrian/Byzantine hybrid. David, you start out with a possible assumption and elevate it to obstacles and odds that need to be overcome. Please notice the casual dismissal of the Byzantine text type by one of the most respected textual critics of our age. The Old Testament in Hebrew (which was the native language of the people of God of old), and the New Testament in Greek (which, at the time of the writing of it was most generally known to the nations), being immediately inspired by God, and, by His singular care and providence kept pure in all ages, are therefore authentical;(r) so as, in all controversies of religion, the Church is finally to appeal unto them. While indeed some of the favorite passages among my ilk are weak in conveying what Confessionalists say they do, some are quite clear, particularly Peter and Christs own statements to the longevity of His owm words, which would include any words of God unless He expressly stated otherwise. Good read for the history and context of the KJV. Thank you for all of your hard work and youre opinion and your honesty! Full NEB text is available online at site I linked below. I've only just started looking at the CSB, but it looks like a good readability/accuracy combination. I believe this is the same viewpoint you use when dealing with the text issue. Adding to this the 34 new readings in NA28, the total number of full disagreements in the 28thedition ofNovum Testamentum Graeceagainst WH1881 is695. Is that really a position you want to take? The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever. Therefore, ~130 pages were going to be burned. You can read Tischendorfs entire account of finding it in his own words here. Actually, we know it did we just dont know if it happened with errors. The Greek word thats translated pass is (parerchomai). Some doctrines are certainly strengthened in the Byzantine Majority text and the Textus Receptus, but no major, central part of the gospel is affected. Another great thing about the WEB: The makers of this Bible wanted to fill a void, to create a modern translation with no copyright, a Bible that can be freely shared, or the whole Bible printed out and given to a friend without a royalty. These Textual Variants have a good chance of being original (viable), and change the meaning of the text (meaningful). We can be assured that we have not had to depend on the latest discoveries of the oldest manuscripts, or on the efforts of fallible man to uncover Gods words. If you dont believe in any form of preservation, were not going to end up with the same conclusions, no matter how long we talk. So Sir Constant held counsel in his troubled heart, while the smooth voice spoke on as the path descended steeply to the lake-side, and the whole world was gray as the speakers cloak. ( a symbol of and her are supplied and not in the original but states the obvious that the head covering is a symbol and that it is placed on the womans (her) head. Its not directly on the topic of adoptionism, but in my article on the Johannine Comma (1 John 5:7-8), I do point to evidence of tampering with the early manuscripts as a result of Arianism. It put a ton of accurate info in one place. Textus Receptus, the manuscript tradition behind the KJV and many other Bibles, reads ho monogens huios. So if you hold to the Majority Text theory, youll needed to decide if youll only include Greek manuscripts. And, finally, when do you hope to see the church rediscover what you believe they have lost? The Codex Vaticanus gets its name from the place where it was stored, the Vatican library. the KJV] was not translated from any one printed edition of the Greek text. Not many people would sift through an 18k+ word article. For example, imagine trying to reconstruct the Greek text by having several different English translations. Many times Jesus said, It is written. Irenaeus in the 2nd century, though not in Alexandria, made a similar admission on the state of corruption among New Testament manuscripts. In fact, this Textual Variant (movable Nu) is the single most common Textual Variant. I find the whole thing to be disconcerting, frankly. All flesh is grass, They are saved by Jesus Christ who washes away sin from them through their Baptism, and gives them eternal life. Have you even attempted to understand the woman taken in adultery? However, this will hopefully provide a better background for you when making your own decisions about source texts. An active member of Toronto's Rosedale Presbyterian Church from 1951. everything between them, We dont have to wonder whether God merely preserved His thoughts, or His ideas. The Septuagint is the Greek translation of the Old Testament in common usage among non-Hebrew-speaking Jews around Jesus's time. (Theres an article about these other books here on Berean Patriot entitled: The Bible: 66 books vs 73 and Why (the Apocrypha Explained).). Later it was taken over by his son, and eventually by Kurt Aland and his wife, along with others. Most modern translations are based on the Nestle-Aland/United Bible Society (NA/UBS) text, published by the Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft (German Bible Society). Read James 1:18. In many ( but not all) cases it's very clearly the Septuagint, because (1) the exact same Greek words are used, in the same order; and (2) where they differ, the Septuagint is being followed. However, you must uncheck four boxes in the AutoCorrect option on the Tools menu in Word 97+. Lets say that the five original copies each had five copies made of them, all made by faithful scribes. You who bring good tidings, Source: The Greek New Testament according to the Majority Text, p. xi. We just dont know what they used. Even if two scribes (40%) did, the majority of scribes (60%) will have preserved the correct reading. I know there are no exact figures, but there are some historical evidences that give us a good idea. The mistakes which the original transcriber made are of perpetual recurrence, there is no prominent Biblical MS. in which there occur suchgross cases of misspelling,faulty grammar, andomission, as in B [Vaticanus], while the scribe of Codex Vaticanus is certainly not the, his execution leaves something to be desired. I do think God will preserve scripture, I just cant think of a verse that promises He will. On which manuscript(s) should we base our translations? The Septuagint text is the text that the Church has preserved. Remember The Word is one of Jesus main titles, especially in the writings of John. Reasoned Eclecticism uses a set of rules to sift through all the Textual Variants and arrive at what they believe is original. Long = characterized by Scribal improvement and expansion. Perhaps you could address that in any amended versions or separately. However, the originals were copied many, many times. Its curious that Codex Vaticanus is given the position of most important when the actual quality of the transcription leaves something to be desired. Erasmus Text Receptus maintained a text form thats similar to the Byzantine Majority Text, but theyre definitely not the same. Its by no means an ironclad argument, but I wouldve been remiss if we didnt talk about it here. Kephal is found nine times in 1 Corinthians chapter 11. So that we could not mistake His intentions, the Lord made clear to what degree He would keep the Scriptures pure. (As shown in the article), And by the way, I do have a high opinion of the TR and prefer it to the Critical text in many ways. Tidings, source: the Greek translation of the Greek New Testament manuscripts copied many, many times common! 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